tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post3023174557251759246..comments2024-03-21T12:52:08.166+11:00Comments on Freedom and Flourishing: Why think about the meaning of happiness?Winton Bateshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-79363276146970495162011-03-08T08:27:01.626+11:002011-03-08T08:27:01.626+11:00Piece of cake, no? lolPiece of cake, no? lolThought Bubble Tenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13665668153611429559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-2338663524080953512011-03-08T08:07:39.652+11:002011-03-08T08:07:39.652+11:00No TBT, you haven't said too much. And yes, th...No TBT, you haven't said too much. And yes, the subject is fraught with concept mines.<br />In the chapter of my book about the meaning of happiness I hope to lead readers through the mine field to the point where they realize that for humans to flourish they need to control their own lives. That should be easy :)Winton Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-77431875259551591952011-03-07T23:07:32.149+11:002011-03-07T23:07:32.149+11:00Well...I almost feel that all my thoughts on the s...Well...I almost feel that all my thoughts on the set of subjects covered in this post and the push-pin post have come to a grinding halt in the face of this question:<br /><br />How will I measure my satisfaction (having made the very bold assumption that I am human :)) against that of a pig's????<br /><br />But perhaps more importantly and usefully, do I want to? Do I believe that it will contribute to greater happiness? Will it cause me to use more of my *truly* human capacities and will this lead to greater happiness?<br /><br />My answers in brief: No, No and Who knows??? <br /><br />I'm inclined to think that happiness can be experienced in many different ways. But I'm not convinced that experiencing more ways necessarily results in more happiness. <br /><br />How do I know this? I don't but one of my human capacities is to make decisions about the *prerequisites*/conditions for my happiness and experiencing limitless ways is not one of them. This is definitely one case where more is not necessarily better. <br /><br />Yes, you could argue, Well how would you know if you haven't tried it? <br /><br />To which I'd say: I'm happy and isn't that the whole point of this?<br /><br />As for hedonism, hmmm...the assertion that it doesn't provide richer, multidimensional experiences of happiness/satisfaction because (presumably) it is driven by and serves only the lower/baser needs is not I feel I can agree with. However, perhaps what I've assumed is meant by hedonism is wrong... :)<br /><br />Winton, I confess I find these kinds of discussions fraught with land, I mean *concept* mines :). <br /><br />Take 8meaningful* for example, how do we even begin to decide or debate whether a meaningful life is the ultimate human goal or satisfier when we haven't agreed on a definition for it?:)<br /><br />And, even if you and I did agree on such a definition, are we justified in generalizing its application so that anyone who does not aspire to it could be regarded as 'less than' human or somehow 'defective* or incapable of being happy? <br /><br />Whoops....have I said too much??? :)<br /><br />PS Thanks for persevering with posting the comment despite Blogger gobbling up your first attempt!Thought Bubble Tenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13665668153611429559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-9299788034282222102011-03-06T17:01:11.362+11:002011-03-06T17:01:11.362+11:00Hello TBT
I just tried to post a response to your ...Hello TBT<br />I just tried to post a response to your comments and got told by Blogger that the action had failed - I lost everything. So, hopefully I will have better luck this time!<br />The points you have chosen to comment on are interesting. <br />First, Aristotle’s comment that it would be strange if our purpose in life was just to seek amusement. Before making that remark he went on a bit about how much trouble people go through in their lives. So he was more or less saying that it would be strange if our only purpose in going through all this was just to seek amusement. <br />I like your point that a desire for amusement can be a catalyst for invention.<br />The deeper issue lurking around here is about hedonism and the idea that motivation is about seeking pleasure and avoiding pain. J S Mill tried to rescue hedonism by arguing that some pleasures are more worthy than others. This gives me an excuse to refer you to my most popular post:<a href="http://wintonbates.blogspot.com/2008/04/is-push-pin-as-good-as-poetry.html" rel="nofollow">Is push-pin as good as poetry?</a> I think hedonism fails because we have a range of different emotions – anger, fear, surprise, amusement etc – that don’t sit easily on a spectrum with pleasure at one end and pain at the other. These different emotions can be viewed as signals for different kinds of actions i.e. life isn’t as simple as just a choice between approaching and avoiding. <br />As for ‘truly’ human capacities, I think Aristotle does mean ‘unique’ in this context - but he also argued that we should be seeking to lead ‘the good life’. I am not sure whether there is an important distinction between the good life and self-fulfilment. I am attracted to Richard Kraut’s idea that it is only meaningful to talk about good if you specify for whom or for what. So, the good life for humans would involve all the things that humans need to flourish. <br />On reflection, I think it is better to argue that we should develop all our capabilities and in particular, the capability to choose which of our capabilities to develop most.<br />Some people interpret Aristotle to be saying that we should be seeking to have meaningful lives. This links to Martin Seligman’s suggestion in ‘Authentic Happiness’ that a meaningful life is one in which we join with something larger than we are, so that meaning that transcends us can enter our lives. Another way of looking at it is that we transcend our previous perceptions of self.Winton Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-50984800382307592602011-03-05T20:49:39.232+11:002011-03-05T20:49:39.232+11:00Hey Winton, this must be the third or fourth tine ...Hey Winton, this must be the third or fourth tine I've come to visit and left without a comment!<br /><br />Sometimes, there are just too many angles with interesting views, so which ones do you spend your thoughts on...you know?<br /><br />Anyways, your speech offers several promising trails for exploration and here are a couple I thought I'd follow:<br /><br />Firstly, wrt Nr Aristotle's dismissal of seeking amusement as the sole purpose of our lives.<br /><br />I could only see that as troublesome IF we did it at the expense of others or had no regard for any adverse effects it might have on ourselves or others. <br /><br />I mean, I'm sure the desire for amusement was the catalyst for many an invention that has served the good of humankind...? <br /><br />As for 'truly' human capacities...does he mean 'uniquely' or 'exclusively' human capacities? Or is there some moral measure contained in the use of the word 'truly'?Thought Bubble Tenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13665668153611429559noreply@blogger.com