tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post6346297071244559410..comments2024-03-21T12:52:08.166+11:00Comments on Freedom and Flourishing: Do family benefits provide a welfare pedestal?Winton Bateshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-978128505933356052011-02-03T09:29:12.082+11:002011-02-03T09:29:12.082+11:00Thanks for your comment, Chudex's. I hope Indo...Thanks for your comment, Chudex's. I hope Indonesia manages to avoid the mistakes that Australia has made in developing its tax-welfare system.Winton Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-29679553070006006052011-02-02T17:10:53.026+11:002011-02-02T17:10:53.026+11:00The writing that heavy but very useful for me. I j...The writing that heavy but very useful for me. I just imagine what if the country I was born and raised there also tax made by many developed countries ... I'm sure the people of Indonesia is not a wasteful society and the home buying or wrote about something just because of social jealousy because every furniture and expensive items purchased will be taxed each year. very perfect.Chudex'shttp://www.uii.ac.idnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-67202801822191148422011-01-31T22:57:23.039+11:002011-01-31T22:57:23.039+11:00No need to be sorry, Jim. I appreciate your intere...No need to be sorry, Jim. I appreciate your interest.Winton Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-58383129251987736692011-01-31T18:00:47.174+11:002011-01-31T18:00:47.174+11:00Hello Winton. First, an explanation.
In 2009 I di...Hello Winton. First, an explanation.<br /><br />In 2009 I did some contract work with the NSW Aboriginal Housing Office including rental policy. A little earlier, I did some work with the Office of Community Housing again with a focus on rental policy including project managing the introduction of CRA based rents. <br /><br />During this time I spent a lot of time just digging into benefits. You had the misfortune to strike an area where I have a special interest. Sorry.<br /><br />On NP, I will try to check facts and come back. We already have an issue in that problems in specific Aboriginal communities lead to specific responses that are then generalised regardless. The results can be unfortunate.Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-33642892686878542762011-01-31T15:29:27.028+11:002011-01-31T15:29:27.028+11:00Jim, I would certainly want to avoid defining in d...Jim, I would certainly want to avoid defining in detail what the funds are to be used for. <br />I was suggesting school attendance as one criterion. There would no doubt be complications involved, but school attendance is supposed to be compulsory. So someone must be responsible for recording school attendance.<br />I don't claim to have given a great deal of thought to what should be done if a child isn't attending school regularly. If the community is really serious that school attendance should be compulsory, then if the parents don't ensure that the kids go to school regularly then perhaps custody plus family benefit should be transferred to someone (other relatives nominated by the parents in the first instance perhaps) who can make that assurance. <br />I hope someone in Canberra is giving a lot of thought to the issues involved. The impression I get from reading Noel Pearson's lecture is that his concerns about family benefits have not being taken seriously by the government.Winton Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-51319186418670524152011-01-31T12:57:12.709+11:002011-01-31T12:57:12.709+11:00I know where you are coming from Winton. My proble...I know where you are coming from Winton. My problem is that I'm not so sure that you can articulate general principles without looking at the detail and going back and forward between the principles and the details. <br /><br />Take your view that it should be about ensuring the welfare of children rather than providing family income support. How do you separate the two? Then what are the flow on effects?<br /><br />Staying with social housing rents, family tax benefits are counted as part of income for rental purposes; 25% goes to rent. If FTB is to be limited to just to welfare of children, does this mean that they cannot be included in rent?<br /><br />Beyond this, FTB is already related to some degree to welfare of kids in that it is meant to cover additional costs associated with those kids - extra food, clothing, rent, education etc. The amount paid actually varies with the age of kids. It provides extra income, but in this sense is not really an income benefit as such. <br /><br />I suspect that the only way to really quarantine FBT so that it is only spent on kids is by defining just what the money can be spent on. I also think that that's likely to get very messy and administratively costly.Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-52645891282690057722011-01-31T12:01:19.809+11:002011-01-31T12:01:19.809+11:00Hi Jim.
I agree, asistance with housing is certai...Hi Jim. <br />I agree, asistance with housing is certainly a relevant consideration that may under some circumstances provide a strong disincentive to seeking paid employment.<br />Special medical benefit provisions for low income people on various pensions may also be a relevant consideration.<br />It would be easy to become overwhelmed by all the complications, so I think it is important to try to focus on the big picture to see if there are some general principles that should apply. <br />My starting point is that I accept the argument for provision of a fairly generous safety net for those most in need in the community. We can afford to help them, so we should do so. (I would prefer people who can afford to do so to provide that help voluntarily - but that might be pie in the sky).<br />I think benefits should be means tested rather than provided universally to avoid disincentives associated with high tax rates.<br />However, means tests also involve disincentives. Benefits should be reduced gradually as income rises to avoid high effective marginal tax rates.<br />From that perspective, the family benefits scheme didn't look too bad to me until I started reading what Noel Pearson was saying about it. What he seems to be implying is that even if you fix up all the disincentives associated with all the other welfare schemes (presumably including housing and health as well as pretend work)you<br />will still be left with people choosing to live on family benefits rather than seeking paid employment.<br />So, that gets me to the point where I think we need some careful thinking about the main objective of family benefits should be.<br />My view is that it should be about ensuring the welfare of children rather than providing family income support.Winton Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07383561940886657594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1089082204850170942.post-26709233273380811702011-01-30T15:42:34.349+11:002011-01-30T15:42:34.349+11:00There is, I think, a problem here not just in the ...There is, I think, a problem here not just in the way benefits and benefit conditions mesh, but also in the interactions between these and on-ground conditions.<br /><br />Take a simple thing like rents. In some Aboriginal communities, rents are very low. That's one reason there is a housing problem. At the other extreme, are city rents. In the middle comes social housing where rents are basically 25% of income.<br /><br />People on benefits renting in the private market may be eligible for rent assistance. This is paid at the rate of 75 cents in the dollar for every dollar of rent paid above a threshold up to a maxium amount. Both the threshold and maximum amounts vary depending upon household type. Single people get very little, a single mum with three kids a fair bit.<br /><br />Just pausing here, you can see that the amount of money people actually have in their pocket after rent varies greatly depending on their benefit class, where they live and just who they rent from.<br /><br />People who want to move into work face increased costs. They may also lose benefits, but this is not a single loss, but one with multiple and complicated thresholds. Social housing, for example, is income means tested. It is no longer, as it once was, to help lower income earners as a general class. If your family income rises beyond a certain and not very high point, you may lose your house.<br /><br />So the family in social housing may face three benefit hurdles: those attached to the primary benefit; those attached to rent assistance; and those attached to social housing.<br /><br />The effects of changes to welfare conditions may be quite variable between people depending on who they are, where they live. They can also have quite perverse effects.<br /><br />This is not to argue against your main point, simply to say that generalised arguments may mislead. For example, I have seen very little in the way of argument and analysis based on the detail of Commonwealth benefit payments taking on-ground conditions plus any other benefits into account.Jim Belshawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10075614280789984767noreply@blogger.com